電影訊息
禍然率71--71 Fragments
編劇： 麥可漢內克
演員： Gabriel Cosmin Urdes Lukas Miko Otto Grunmandl Anne Bennent Udo Samel
机遇编年史的71块碎片/机缘七十一面体/冰川三部曲之三：机遇编年史的71块碎片
7.2 / 8,810人
100分鐘
編劇： 麥可漢內克
演員： Gabriel Cosmin Urdes Lukas Miko Otto Grunmandl Anne Bennent Udo Samel
電影評論更多影評
2015-12-10 11:39:12
Interview with Haneke
整個採訪，他表情洋溢著資產階級的愉悅、健談，能感受到他十分喜愛他的電影事業，對成功的享受和對世界的憂慮以在他達成融合，非常承認這個世界，正如地陷入其中他活著。像眾多電影導演一樣，信仰自己的觀點，表達自己的觀點語氣肯定，禮貌地敷衍記者的理解，對記者水平的批判在對話中掩藏得很好。
H- After having made two films restricted in scope to one family, a glimpse into one family, I wanted expand the spectrum and take a glimpse into "society". That was the goal because, by making a trilogy, I wanted to kind of change the point of view.
1 COLDNESS
- What makes it a trilogy?
- It was my portrait of what I know about this society in which I live, about its coldness and everything that's been endlessly discussed.
這是我個人對我生存的社會的畫像。關於它的冷酷，以及一切一直被談論的問題。
because now it's become a bit...I once made the mistake of saying that this film, this trilogy is about glaciation. That's hounded me ever since and it's why I now have difficulty talking about it.
因為現在它有點。。。我曾經錯說著三部曲是關於冰川的， 搞得現在很難解釋。
I always have trouble with the labels people put on a director or a film, because I'm always trying to be more complex than what those words boil down to.
我總覺得很不好處理那些人們貼的標籤， 因為我會去著重超越那些標籤詞語本身更複雜的意義。
2 COMMUNICATION
This entire trilogy, if you like, is also about the theme of communication that fails to communicate.
這三部曲，你可能會覺得，也是關於交流覆滅交流的主題。
That's it. Personally, that's the impression that strikes me the most, and I always attempt to broach that topic in my films, because we talk and talk but we never communicate.
對我來說，這個印像是所有中最震撼我的。我總是想在電影中深入討論這一點。因為我們說說說，卻從未交流。
and it gets worse with intimacy. The closer we are, the less we talk.
這對親切感更糟。
[I am sorry, i didn't catch what you said?][sorry to disturb you.]
3 FRAGMENTARY
-By the idea that reality is always fragmentary. We can grasp reality solely through fragments...
有個說法是現實是碎 片式的。我們只能通過碎片領悟現實。。。
-We can access nothing but fragments, because that makes up our everyday experience.
我們唯一的媒介就是碎片。因為每天的經歷是由碎片組成的。[當代生活方式]
we see very little. we understand even less. yet in mainstream cinema, we always pretend to know it all. that annoys me.
其實我們看得少，明白得少。但我們在主流電影中裝作全都看明白了。
In 20th century literature, or at least in literature from the second half of the 20th century, not a single writer dared to write with the pretension of knowing it all.
二十世紀文學，或50年代後期的二十世紀文學，[現代文學]沒有一個作者敢裝作知道一切。
it's only via fragmentation that a story can be told honestly. so we divulge little pieces, and the sum of these pieces, slightly widens the possibilities for the audience to choose from, to relate them to their own experiences.
只有通過碎片話故事才能被真誠地講述。我們洩漏碎片，然後連貫在結構中。一點點打開觀眾取捨的可能性，勾起他們自己的經驗。
in other words, to provoke the viewers to kick-start their intellectual and emotional engines, into motion, into production.
去喚醒觀眾的智與情，運作然後生產。
it's the same with music. you have a theme and a counter-theme, then you build a structure with which you can open up the universe of the sonata. it's similar. Screenwriting is a very technical task with a psychological background, of course. How will the viewer react? When you make a film, you must always think about how the viewers will react.
劇本寫作是個技術工作，心理學的背景，你要考慮觀眾的反應。
i wanted to create typical extracts or fragments that would be recognisable, not understandable, but recognisable. that's something eles.
寫作典型的點睛片段，可認同的，而非僅僅可理解的。[不覺得可理解和可認同是導演能夠掌控的，導演能做的只是「希望」、「但願」是這樣。]
4 CONTRADICTORY
cinema often pretends to portray a totality. 'a character is this.' A character is never just this, they're that, as well, and all the 'as wells' are usually contradictory.
電影總是假裝要刻畫一個整體。一個人物是這樣的。其實一個人物絕不僅僅是這樣的，他常常是矛盾的。
That's what imbues life with richness, and irritation, too.
這是生活中為什麼既豐富又苦悶。
A work of art irritates because we're used to getting the solutions that explain why a person is like that. but in real life, you never know why.
一個藝術作品讓人不愉快，因為我們習慣於為問題找原因解決。但現實生活是，沒有原因，沒法解決。
you may have a suspicion or an idea, but this idea can be completely wrong.
-but don't you think that cinema reveals as much as it hides?
-it can reveal as much as it hides. it depends. Again, it depends on the structure, because if you only show a character in a situation, you know nothing. you know only the situation. you know the situation, maybe. and you can say, 'it's this type of situation.' This, for example, is an interview situation. But you don't know, why the character is there, why he speaks in this manner, et cetera.
so when you are making a film, the secret, or the obligation, is to make this contradictory enough to give the illusion of life's richness.
電影可能展示得和隱藏得一樣多，要看結構[結構是做電影的王道－時間的王道]。一個人物在一個情形中，你只能領會情形，不會領會人物，因為你不知道來龍去脈。所以拍電影是要注入足夠多的矛盾，將生命之豐富呈現在被矛盾填充的幻象中。
in screenwriting, you always strive to find a balance between clarity and precision, on the one hand, so that you describe a situation very precisely, but without making it so typical that you see the finger pointing out, 'look, this is it.'
寫劇本時，你總努力在明晰和準確之間找平衡，就是說你準確地刻畫一個情形，但並不典型到把它點破。
And that is where the challenge of the writing lies, to always find a situation that will allow me to be typical without being too facile, too flagrant. from time to time, it works, and other times, it fails.
這是寫作的挑戰所在：總去尋找一種情形，典型，而不草率不顯然不魯莽。
it's dangerous, but....when talking with my students, i always say that in billiards, you can hit the ball directly or you can bank the ball. it's always better to bank a shot than to hit the ball directly. [circuitous tactics] The challenge of screenwriting is to seek out situations that make sufficient use of banking to avoid being too flagrant, too explanatory, too didactic.
寫作的挑戰就是尋找情形，充足地利用它迂迴表現，避免直白化、說明化、說教化。
[i'd like to see you in my situation. it happens to us all. just for a second. so your family life isn't disturbed.]
5 LONG SHOT
Each syllable was written. Nothing was improvised. He begins, he changes topic, he resumes in a different way. It was difficult to memorize. 每個音節都寫在劇本，沒有任何即興。他換話題，岔開繼續。很難去記憶。
- it's a single shot?
- it's a fixed shot, yes. Lasting nine minutes.
-it's important to set challenges...for the director and the actor. There are challenges to capturing reality. You must really capture reality in cinematic time...
-yes, because if we had cut... another long shot is the ping-pong shot. if we had done it in a way that just conveys the information, a young man playing against a machine, it lasts a minute, everyone understands, end of story. No. Because the scene lasts as long as it does, you come to another understanding. there 's the secret lies in the length. length must be determined by imagining how i, as a viewer, would react when watching this. At first, I see a boy playing. soon, i tell myself, 'i get it, next scene', as typically happens in movies. then, it amuses me. then, it infuriates me. then, it tires me. then, i say, 'lets see where this goes.'
因為場景被延長[長鏡頭]，你理解到其他層度。在延長的長度中有秘密。你要想像觀眾看時會如何反應，以此決定鏡頭長度。[格物致知]比如，理解－看出了興緻－為之不舒服、慍怒－最後對之疲勞。
and at one point, i begin to watch. and to have a respiration that lasts the right amount of time is difficult to achieve. it's true of this long scene, as it is of other scenes, such as in Code Unknown. That's always the secret and it's a musical matter.
6 VIOLENCE
that was my impetus for telling this story, this boy's story, which was plastered all over the media here.
-what struck me is that this child steals a comic book and a camera. what does he want? he wants the imaginary.
- right, because he's had an unpleasant life. what has he learnt? when he entered this society, at least, he learned that 'beauty' is found only in false images. so, naturelly, it's normal to try to adapt to that, to participate in this incredible lie.
- there's guilt. there are themes somewhat...yet at the same time, you don't want to direct us toward generalities. 你不想把我們引向一概而論。
-no, but it's like what we were saying rather simplistically about violence. i think we sense the violence insofar as it's never shown.
這就像我們總是很簡單地談論暴力。基本上我們對暴力的感受就像看平常事物一樣。
i think we also sense the beauty and grace, whatever you will, in the way that we avoid portraying it.
我覺得我們在用一種規避寫真的方式感知美。it exists only in the.. in that sense, you can say there's a metaphysical quality,它只存在在，可以說，形而上的品質里。
but i think in these times if i portray, or try to portray beauty, it immediately becomes a lie.
但我覺得在這些時候，如果我去呈現美，它只能變成謊言。
so only by not showing it, can you evoke it in the viewer's reaction. that's my opinion.
因此我認為，只有不呈現它，你便能在觀眾心中喚醒它。
there's a quote from Adorno that I love. It goes like this, ''Art is magic delivered from the lie of being truth.'' 藝術是一種魔法，通過作為真理的謊言呈現。
if you achieve that, not pretending to know what it's about, but to... why... i often ask myself why. i'm so happy when confronted with a work of art. life without art is unimaginable for me. and why does it make me so happy? that's the question, and it's difficult to answer because it's a ... in an era when God has ceased to exist, there's a remnant desire for another world.
為什麼我熱愛藝術，這個問題很難回答。當一個時代失去了神，世上剩下的是對另一個世界的想往。
by another world, i don't mean paradise, but another image of the world. 另一個世界－這個世界的另一種模樣。
and i believe you can only evoke it by avoiding its portrayal, because otherwise it immediately becomes banal.
你只能通過不去刻畫以喚醒它，反之那刻畫就變成平庸。
and if you stimulate the desire for it, by pointing to what's false, you've found the best way to evoke it.
但如果你通過呈現它的反面，激起人們對它本身的嚮往，是最好的辦法。
i am not religious..well, what does it mean to be religious? i am not catholic. naturally, these films are also the expression of a desire for a better world. that's normal, i think. because if we were content with ...art has never, at least, dramatic art has never agreed with the status quo. that's normal.
藝術總在追求更好的世界，這很正常。劇情藝術從未妥協過人的生存現狀，這很正常。
we should always rebel against what's false, against what's evil. how can you do that in cinema? by showing it, i think. by showing it in manner that makes you crave an alternative.
如何用電影表達這種對美好世界反面的掙扎？靠展現。用一種特別的態度展現出來，讓人渴望。[其實方法很簡單，犯罪的事兒讓天真而生活痛苦的孩子做，長鏡頭讓人經歷忍受生命不能忍受之苦，讓人經歷生命中不能解釋之痛]
and avoid to turn the violence into a consumable commodity. The mainstream tends to do that. it makes even the most despicable aspects of the world.
主流電影消費暴力，這是這個世界最卑鄙的一面，消費商品化。
it's the manifestation of the spirit, there's a Latin word I can't think of. [ Animus & Anima ]. It's not coming to me.
the duty of art, of all forms of art, naturally, its to nurture this desire, which is the most beautiful thing on earth. 藝術的任務就是培育這種對阿尼瑪靈魂的嚮往，是世上最美的東西。
7 WORKING
i give myself a deadline. i tell myself, 'i must finish up to here.' i schedule my time, very disciplined. I must write at least two pages a day. and i don't leave my desk before finishing them. even if i throw it away the next day.
-there are no second chances. the camera are rolling. the only really big annoyance is the time crunch. every morning you are scare of what will happen. but the editing process in and of itself it's pure pleasure because that's when the film comes alive. that's when you see if your vision what you tried to create, works. there's no stress because you have time.
- an artisan, someone doing his job.
- sound editing, it really comes alive when you add sound. with the sound design, you can greatly improve things. even things that you botched, you can fix them with little sound effects. and if it all comes to life, its incredibly... i love it.
H- After having made two films restricted in scope to one family, a glimpse into one family, I wanted expand the spectrum and take a glimpse into "society". That was the goal because, by making a trilogy, I wanted to kind of change the point of view.
1 COLDNESS
- What makes it a trilogy?
- It was my portrait of what I know about this society in which I live, about its coldness and everything that's been endlessly discussed.
這是我個人對我生存的社會的畫像。關於它的冷酷，以及一切一直被談論的問題。
because now it's become a bit...I once made the mistake of saying that this film, this trilogy is about glaciation. That's hounded me ever since and it's why I now have difficulty talking about it.
因為現在它有點。。。我曾經錯說著三部曲是關於冰川的， 搞得現在很難解釋。
I always have trouble with the labels people put on a director or a film, because I'm always trying to be more complex than what those words boil down to.
我總覺得很不好處理那些人們貼的標籤， 因為我會去著重超越那些標籤詞語本身更複雜的意義。
2 COMMUNICATION
This entire trilogy, if you like, is also about the theme of communication that fails to communicate.
這三部曲，你可能會覺得，也是關於交流覆滅交流的主題。
That's it. Personally, that's the impression that strikes me the most, and I always attempt to broach that topic in my films, because we talk and talk but we never communicate.
對我來說，這個印像是所有中最震撼我的。我總是想在電影中深入討論這一點。因為我們說說說，卻從未交流。
and it gets worse with intimacy. The closer we are, the less we talk.
這對親切感更糟。
[I am sorry, i didn't catch what you said?][sorry to disturb you.]
3 FRAGMENTARY
-By the idea that reality is always fragmentary. We can grasp reality solely through fragments...
有個說法是現實是碎 片式的。我們只能通過碎片領悟現實。。。
-We can access nothing but fragments, because that makes up our everyday experience.
我們唯一的媒介就是碎片。因為每天的經歷是由碎片組成的。[當代生活方式]
we see very little. we understand even less. yet in mainstream cinema, we always pretend to know it all. that annoys me.
其實我們看得少，明白得少。但我們在主流電影中裝作全都看明白了。
In 20th century literature, or at least in literature from the second half of the 20th century, not a single writer dared to write with the pretension of knowing it all.
二十世紀文學，或50年代後期的二十世紀文學，[現代文學]沒有一個作者敢裝作知道一切。
it's only via fragmentation that a story can be told honestly. so we divulge little pieces, and the sum of these pieces, slightly widens the possibilities for the audience to choose from, to relate them to their own experiences.
只有通過碎片話故事才能被真誠地講述。我們洩漏碎片，然後連貫在結構中。一點點打開觀眾取捨的可能性，勾起他們自己的經驗。
in other words, to provoke the viewers to kick-start their intellectual and emotional engines, into motion, into production.
去喚醒觀眾的智與情，運作然後生產。
it's the same with music. you have a theme and a counter-theme, then you build a structure with which you can open up the universe of the sonata. it's similar. Screenwriting is a very technical task with a psychological background, of course. How will the viewer react? When you make a film, you must always think about how the viewers will react.
劇本寫作是個技術工作，心理學的背景，你要考慮觀眾的反應。
i wanted to create typical extracts or fragments that would be recognisable, not understandable, but recognisable. that's something eles.
寫作典型的點睛片段，可認同的，而非僅僅可理解的。[不覺得可理解和可認同是導演能夠掌控的，導演能做的只是「希望」、「但願」是這樣。]
4 CONTRADICTORY
cinema often pretends to portray a totality. 'a character is this.' A character is never just this, they're that, as well, and all the 'as wells' are usually contradictory.
電影總是假裝要刻畫一個整體。一個人物是這樣的。其實一個人物絕不僅僅是這樣的，他常常是矛盾的。
That's what imbues life with richness, and irritation, too.
這是生活中為什麼既豐富又苦悶。
A work of art irritates because we're used to getting the solutions that explain why a person is like that. but in real life, you never know why.
一個藝術作品讓人不愉快，因為我們習慣於為問題找原因解決。但現實生活是，沒有原因，沒法解決。
you may have a suspicion or an idea, but this idea can be completely wrong.
-but don't you think that cinema reveals as much as it hides?
-it can reveal as much as it hides. it depends. Again, it depends on the structure, because if you only show a character in a situation, you know nothing. you know only the situation. you know the situation, maybe. and you can say, 'it's this type of situation.' This, for example, is an interview situation. But you don't know, why the character is there, why he speaks in this manner, et cetera.
so when you are making a film, the secret, or the obligation, is to make this contradictory enough to give the illusion of life's richness.
電影可能展示得和隱藏得一樣多，要看結構[結構是做電影的王道－時間的王道]。一個人物在一個情形中，你只能領會情形，不會領會人物，因為你不知道來龍去脈。所以拍電影是要注入足夠多的矛盾，將生命之豐富呈現在被矛盾填充的幻象中。
in screenwriting, you always strive to find a balance between clarity and precision, on the one hand, so that you describe a situation very precisely, but without making it so typical that you see the finger pointing out, 'look, this is it.'
寫劇本時，你總努力在明晰和準確之間找平衡，就是說你準確地刻畫一個情形，但並不典型到把它點破。
And that is where the challenge of the writing lies, to always find a situation that will allow me to be typical without being too facile, too flagrant. from time to time, it works, and other times, it fails.
這是寫作的挑戰所在：總去尋找一種情形，典型，而不草率不顯然不魯莽。
it's dangerous, but....when talking with my students, i always say that in billiards, you can hit the ball directly or you can bank the ball. it's always better to bank a shot than to hit the ball directly. [circuitous tactics] The challenge of screenwriting is to seek out situations that make sufficient use of banking to avoid being too flagrant, too explanatory, too didactic.
寫作的挑戰就是尋找情形，充足地利用它迂迴表現，避免直白化、說明化、說教化。
[i'd like to see you in my situation. it happens to us all. just for a second. so your family life isn't disturbed.]
5 LONG SHOT
Each syllable was written. Nothing was improvised. He begins, he changes topic, he resumes in a different way. It was difficult to memorize. 每個音節都寫在劇本，沒有任何即興。他換話題，岔開繼續。很難去記憶。
- it's a single shot?
- it's a fixed shot, yes. Lasting nine minutes.
-it's important to set challenges...for the director and the actor. There are challenges to capturing reality. You must really capture reality in cinematic time...
-yes, because if we had cut... another long shot is the ping-pong shot. if we had done it in a way that just conveys the information, a young man playing against a machine, it lasts a minute, everyone understands, end of story. No. Because the scene lasts as long as it does, you come to another understanding. there 's the secret lies in the length. length must be determined by imagining how i, as a viewer, would react when watching this. At first, I see a boy playing. soon, i tell myself, 'i get it, next scene', as typically happens in movies. then, it amuses me. then, it infuriates me. then, it tires me. then, i say, 'lets see where this goes.'
因為場景被延長[長鏡頭]，你理解到其他層度。在延長的長度中有秘密。你要想像觀眾看時會如何反應，以此決定鏡頭長度。[格物致知]比如，理解－看出了興緻－為之不舒服、慍怒－最後對之疲勞。
and at one point, i begin to watch. and to have a respiration that lasts the right amount of time is difficult to achieve. it's true of this long scene, as it is of other scenes, such as in Code Unknown. That's always the secret and it's a musical matter.
6 VIOLENCE
that was my impetus for telling this story, this boy's story, which was plastered all over the media here.
-what struck me is that this child steals a comic book and a camera. what does he want? he wants the imaginary.
- right, because he's had an unpleasant life. what has he learnt? when he entered this society, at least, he learned that 'beauty' is found only in false images. so, naturelly, it's normal to try to adapt to that, to participate in this incredible lie.
- there's guilt. there are themes somewhat...yet at the same time, you don't want to direct us toward generalities. 你不想把我們引向一概而論。
-no, but it's like what we were saying rather simplistically about violence. i think we sense the violence insofar as it's never shown.
這就像我們總是很簡單地談論暴力。基本上我們對暴力的感受就像看平常事物一樣。
i think we also sense the beauty and grace, whatever you will, in the way that we avoid portraying it.
我覺得我們在用一種規避寫真的方式感知美。it exists only in the.. in that sense, you can say there's a metaphysical quality,它只存在在，可以說，形而上的品質里。
but i think in these times if i portray, or try to portray beauty, it immediately becomes a lie.
但我覺得在這些時候，如果我去呈現美，它只能變成謊言。
so only by not showing it, can you evoke it in the viewer's reaction. that's my opinion.
因此我認為，只有不呈現它，你便能在觀眾心中喚醒它。
there's a quote from Adorno that I love. It goes like this, ''Art is magic delivered from the lie of being truth.'' 藝術是一種魔法，通過作為真理的謊言呈現。
if you achieve that, not pretending to know what it's about, but to... why... i often ask myself why. i'm so happy when confronted with a work of art. life without art is unimaginable for me. and why does it make me so happy? that's the question, and it's difficult to answer because it's a ... in an era when God has ceased to exist, there's a remnant desire for another world.
為什麼我熱愛藝術，這個問題很難回答。當一個時代失去了神，世上剩下的是對另一個世界的想往。
by another world, i don't mean paradise, but another image of the world. 另一個世界－這個世界的另一種模樣。
and i believe you can only evoke it by avoiding its portrayal, because otherwise it immediately becomes banal.
你只能通過不去刻畫以喚醒它，反之那刻畫就變成平庸。
and if you stimulate the desire for it, by pointing to what's false, you've found the best way to evoke it.
但如果你通過呈現它的反面，激起人們對它本身的嚮往，是最好的辦法。
i am not religious..well, what does it mean to be religious? i am not catholic. naturally, these films are also the expression of a desire for a better world. that's normal, i think. because if we were content with ...art has never, at least, dramatic art has never agreed with the status quo. that's normal.
藝術總在追求更好的世界，這很正常。劇情藝術從未妥協過人的生存現狀，這很正常。
we should always rebel against what's false, against what's evil. how can you do that in cinema? by showing it, i think. by showing it in manner that makes you crave an alternative.
如何用電影表達這種對美好世界反面的掙扎？靠展現。用一種特別的態度展現出來，讓人渴望。[其實方法很簡單，犯罪的事兒讓天真而生活痛苦的孩子做，長鏡頭讓人經歷忍受生命不能忍受之苦，讓人經歷生命中不能解釋之痛]
and avoid to turn the violence into a consumable commodity. The mainstream tends to do that. it makes even the most despicable aspects of the world.
主流電影消費暴力，這是這個世界最卑鄙的一面，消費商品化。
it's the manifestation of the spirit, there's a Latin word I can't think of. [ Animus & Anima ]. It's not coming to me.
the duty of art, of all forms of art, naturally, its to nurture this desire, which is the most beautiful thing on earth. 藝術的任務就是培育這種對阿尼瑪靈魂的嚮往，是世上最美的東西。
7 WORKING
i give myself a deadline. i tell myself, 'i must finish up to here.' i schedule my time, very disciplined. I must write at least two pages a day. and i don't leave my desk before finishing them. even if i throw it away the next day.
-there are no second chances. the camera are rolling. the only really big annoyance is the time crunch. every morning you are scare of what will happen. but the editing process in and of itself it's pure pleasure because that's when the film comes alive. that's when you see if your vision what you tried to create, works. there's no stress because you have time.
- an artisan, someone doing his job.
- sound editing, it really comes alive when you add sound. with the sound design, you can greatly improve things. even things that you botched, you can fix them with little sound effects. and if it all comes to life, its incredibly... i love it.
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